Israeli Flag Discussion, Policy, and Public Comment in New Rochelle
February 13, 2024 City Council meeting
NEW ROCHELLE, NY (February 14, 2024) — The ongoing controversy over an Israeli flag raised on a flag pole in front of City Hall, first reported by Talk of the Sound, burst into public view during a City Council discussion yesterday afternoon. Later, 17 people expressed their support or opposition to displaying the Israeli flag.
Video here.
A total of twenty-five people addressed the New Rochelle City Council last night during Citizens to be Heard, a public comment period held once a month. Six people supported flying the Israeli flag on a flag pole in front of City Hall. Eleven people opposed flying the Israeli flag on a flag pole in front of City Hall. Eight people did not express an opinion about the Israeli flag or spoke on a different topic.
Despite concerns, the evening passed uneventfully, with heated speeches on all sides listened to respectfully and without interruption. An augmented police presence was on hand in and around the council chambers.
The six people who supported the Israeli flag expressed appreciation to the City for what one speaker called the “moral clarity” to raise the flag to show solidarity with Israel following the 10/7 attacks and hostage still held by HAMAS.
The eleven people opposed to the Israeli flag, several of whom said they were Jewish, had three common talking points: Israel is committing genocide in Gaza; New York State law prohibits flying a foreign flag at City Hall, Remove the Israeli flag.
Most speakers opposing the flag claimed that Section 141 of Chapter 44 (Public Buildings) Article 5 of the Consolidated Laws of New York prohibits displaying any foreign flag on the flagpole in front of City Hall. The same law was cited in emails last month by Mayor Ramos-Herbert and Council Member Shane Osinloye.
§ 141. Display of foreign flags on public buildings. It shall not be lawful to display the flag or emblem of any foreign country upon any state, county or municipal building; provided, however, that whenever any foreigner shall become the guest of the United States, the state or any city, upon public proclamation by the governor or mayor of such city, the flag of the country of which such public guest shall be a citizen may be displayed upon such public buildings.
Shane and those raising § 141 last night were both absolutely convinced they are right that foreign flags are prohibited on flag poles at City Hall and just as absolutely wrong.
In the “secret” emails in January we reported on last week, Shane and Yadira raised § 141, with the Mayor asking City Manager Kathleen Gill for a legal opinion. Gill asked Corporation Counsel Dawn Warren to research the law and come to the City Council meeting yesterday afternoon with answers.
Shane asked that flag be taken down in the meantime based on his erroneous legal theory of § 141 — acting as his own lawyer.
Even when § 141 was explained to him —that the law did not apply to a foreign flag on a flagpole — by Gill and Warren, Shane continued as if they had not explained anything.
During the Committee of the Whole discussion about the Israeli flag and developing a flag policy, Shane took umbrage when Albert Tarantino aimed a critical remark at Shane, that he should not be offering legal opinions. The full video is here but what follows is a partial transcript, edited for clarity, which reads as follows:
TARANTINO: … the question about the flags on the building, we have somebody on our staff called the corporation counsel that you can go to with that information at any time and she will research it and given you the answer… we do have a corporation counsel that is very capable of being our lawyer for the council to do the things that we need to be done and not try to be our own lawyers.
OSINLOYE: I would just like to that that New York State statute that I mentioned was brought to us by our constituents it was not something that arose out of our conversation and we prefer that and I don’t ever want to act on my own as my own lawyer or counsel or whatever it was that was implied and I don’t think anybody else on the council does either so I’d be excited to get the guidance of our corporate (sic) counsel and have many deep discussions on the law with our dedicated…
GILL: She did provide to myself and (crosstalk)
WARREN: Yeah, I’d be more than happy to provide you…and the law you cited is correct but it has to be read in conjuction with other laws…
OSINLOYE: Yes.
WARREN: …that do allow flags to be flown on public property not necessarily the building itself…
GILL: The law applies to affixed to buildings not that are not on freestanding flagpoles.
OSINLOYE: I think that the depth of understanding would be great before we have a conversation about public meetings because then we can bring that to the meeting from a more informed position. Yeah. I am very excited for the future of that as well.
Had Shane allowed Gill and Warren continue he might then have learned about another New York State law: NY Exec L § 403 (2021)
This is the State law that governs how to properly display a foreign flag on a flagpole. It seems not to have occurred to Shane or the speakers last night that if there is a law that prohibited flying a foreign flag on a flagpole there would be no need for a law that explains the Manner of Display of a foreign flag or the United Nations flag on a flagpole.
The City of New Rochelle displayed the UN flag on the same flagpole as the Israeli flag in 2020. Shane was not on council then but Yadira and Sara Kaye were and neither of them objected to the UN flag (or the French flag, Italian flag or Ukrainian flag) — only the Israeli flag.
Shane did offer his own (incorrect) legal interpretation of § 141 in emails in January. He is acting as his own lawyer (despite his not having a law degree). Denying that in spite of public records serves no purpose. He was informed about three weeks earlier that the corporation counsel would come to the meeting prepared to answer questions about § 141 but he never asked her any questions about § 141 and even after it was explained to him by two lawyers that § 141 did not apply to a freestanding flagpole he continued as if no explanation had been provided and his incorrect legal opinion was accurate. This is the very definition of acting as your own lawyer (and doing it badly).
Six of the eleven speakers opposing the flag raised § 141 and Shane’s incorrect legal opinion: Joan Glickman, Fatima Gilliam, Bruce Soloway, Natalia Cavakadkian, Harry Soloway for Howard Horowitz, and Michael Cammer.
Like Shane, they repeatedly emphasized the words “foreign flags” and “foreign country” in § 141 while ignoring the operative word “upon”. § 141 speaks to placing a flag upon a building not displaying it on a flagpole.
Shane pressed on as if his legal opinion on § 141 was accurate.
OSINLOYE: I think the spirit of the law is terminology that we should understand and I think the sprit of the New York State law is something we follow that as closely as permissible will prevent additional situations just like this.
GILL: Right. We actually have to follow it entirely.
OSINLOYE: Look at that. It saves us time.
Shane continues to hold out the idea that following the law means doing what he incorrectly believes is the law, namely § 141.
OSINLOYE: And if we could get any guidance from the State that would be wonderful. They could elaborate on their policy and save us a lot of back and forth.
The way New York State articulates a policy is by adopting laws which, as Kathleen and Dawn just explained to him, is that § 141 does not apply to flags on a freestanding flagpole.
The display of flags in New York is determined by the Governor. The Office of Governmental Services then acts on the decision of the Governor. I know this because I asked the OGS Public Information Officer:
I am still awaiting answers to that last email.
I think it is fair to say that we now have a good idea who Yadira and Shane were talking about when they said they were receiving complaints. I did ask Yadira and Shane about the complaints they received but they did not reply. I made a FOIL request for all the complaints received by all the Council Members. Stay tuned.
There was plenty more to cover about last night which will have to wait a bit.
Below are my raw notes. The spelling of names is phonetical so if any reader sees a name that requires a correct please let me know.
UPDATE: the official minutes have been made public.
I got the correct spellings so updated.
25 speakers at CBTH on Tuesday 2/13/2024
Vince Malfetano - secret government
Joseph Farca - transparency, accountability
James O’Toole - secret government, no second flag
Joan Glickman - Israeli genocide, Law
Andrew Newman - Yadira lied at Golden Horseshoe
Sameh Fakhouri - Arab-American pacifist
Cecelia Havan - Israeli genocide, final solution, ethic cleansing
Fatimah Gilliam - Law, Flag down tonight
Bruce Soloway - Law, Holocaust, Never Again
Noelle Elia - Flag down tonight
Natalie Kabasakalian - Law, Flag down tonight, Israeli genocide
Judy Jacob DeRocco - my FOIL, Sara & SW, Law?
Judith Kaufman - Flag down tonight, Israeli genocide, ethic cleansing
Rabbi Scott B. Weiner - Wanted to listen
Michael Turek - thanks to police
John P. Patouhas - eminent domain
Sadye Higgs - parking at New Roc
Harry Soloway (for Howard Horowitz) - Law, Condemns 10/7 attack, annihilation
Michael Cammer - Law, criminal charges, slaughter, erasure of people
Angelo Williams - towing business
Diana Lovett - supports council, Yadira
Nancy Weinberger - thanks to police
Joel Hestein - fighting HAMAS
Mitchell Tarnapol - supports council
Myriam Decime - attack Yadira, genocide
Supported Israeli Flag
Vince Malfetano
Joseph Farca
Andrew Newman
Michael Turek
Nancy Weinberger
Joel Hestein
Opposed Israeli Flag
Joan Glickman
Sameh Fakhouri
Cecelia Havan
Fatimah Gilliam
Bruce Soloway
Noelle Elia
Natalie Kabasakalian
Judith Kaufman
Howard Horowitz
Michael Cammer
Myriam Decime
Other
James O’Toole
Judy Jacob DeRocco
Rabbi Scott B. Weiner
John P. Patouhas
Sadye Higgs
Angelo Williams
Diana Lovett
Mitchell Tarnapol
RELATED:
Words in Edgewise:,How New Rochelle Mayor Tried (and Failed) to Quietly Remove Israeli Flag at City Hall
Words in Edgewise: Mayor Invites Gaza War into New Rochelle City Hall on Tuesday
News12: New Rochelle to develop 'flag policies' after issues over attempting to remove the Israeli flag
I plead ignorance to the flag laws at City Hall, but I am extremely sensitive to any inkling of Anti Semitism. Equating the war of self defense by Israel with a Genocide is parroting the evil of Hamas Terrorists Propaganda. Hamas is totally responsible for the tragic losses of Palestinians because they planted terror tunnels throughout civilian areas. Hamas ruled The Gaza Strip in 2007 and used the Palestinians as human shields. Israel never committed any genocide on any population. It is disturbing to hear any such comments from New Rochelle citizens who I expected to be more educated on Mid East politics.
I'm glad the meeting was somewhat civil. It does sould as though there were some people there with an agenda, and who came to basically gaslight and browbeat the counsel into doing what they wanted, the law be damned. My personal feeling is that what you do for one, you have to do for all, so if the plan was to leave the Israeli flag up until the next event, whatever that event was supposed to be.